Chase Charifa
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to STR like the best. I'm your host, Michael Chang. It's my pleasure to welcome Chase Sharifa on the podcast. Chase, welcome to the show. Thanks Mike. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you taking the time with us today. Uh, why don't you give me a second, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself to the audience.
Sure. My name is Chase Sharifa and I'm personally a lender and I guess a former avid wedding videographer, photographer turned STR host with my wife. So that's our story and we're sticking to it. So we have several cabins. We specialize in short term rentals in California, Tennessee, and in Branson, Kentucky area, and we just love to deliver amazing experiences for our guests.
Experiences. I guess we're talking about the, we were talking before you, you got one of your, your first property, which we'll talk we'll touch on in Big Bear, [00:01:00] California, and it's been profiled in some really amazing publications. Uh, I'd love to talk more about that and how that's really grown. Your business.
Foot Cab, the Lightfoot Cabin. Yeah. Lightfoot Cabin. Mm-Hmm. Cabin. Let's talk about that. But before we go there, I was ask this question. You have five. Short term rentals, like what's a memorable experience that you'd love that you can share with the audience here? What's something that's come to your mind experience that you've gone through one of our properties?
I really wanted to scale so bad, but we ran out of money. So luckily with the whole pandemic going on I really wanted, like, EVs are the thing. So, and I didn't, couldn't decide which I wanted to get. So I pre ordered both Rivians and all the Teslas. And then finally came into fruition where they were coming in.
And I was like, I can't take all of this. But the prices had gone up on all of them. But my My price that I bought it for a lot, got locked in. So I decided, what if I just take delivery and sell it? Would that actually work? [00:02:00] And I did. I sold all of them with a slight profit and I use some of those profits to buy a cabin.
Awesome. Flip flipping pre sale Tesla's for STR cabins. Okay. I love it. Let's talk about your portfolio. You own all your properties, right? You don't do, you don't rent any of them and then we rent it. All you do is own. Is that correct? All I do is own. Yeah. I do not rental arbitrage. Huh? No, I think a lot of people here are that listen, they're interested in rental arbitrage, but they ultimately, and I agree with this, like owning your properties is the path to long term wealth, right?
You get the appreciation benefits, tax depreciation, and with short term rentals, you get the cashflow. But tell us about your first property in Big Bear. How did you get that first property and how'd you get it on Conde Nast? Yeah. So. That was a crazy story where in 2020, everyone was all about van life and we had just had our first son and we're like, man, wouldn't it be cool to just go out, live the van life?
So here it's looking at all these [00:03:00] things and then I go to a dealership and a dealership said, yeah, you could even use a second home loan. I'm like a second home loan. Yeah, it qualifies for it. So it has a bathroom, a kitchen or whatever. I'm like. Why would I ever use a second home loan on a car? And then it just made me stop and rethink.
I was like, I'm not going to buy a liability. We don't know that after this pandemic thing, this is all gonna, nobody's going to want to do van life anymore. It's just a temporary thing. So I was like, in that case, why don't we actually just get a actual second home, like a cabin? Like we've always dreamed of that.
Right. So we, our real estate journey thus far was we bought our first home in 2017. This little two bedroom, one bath, 800 square foot. Single family, we had moved out to a new build in 2020 and we're renting the old place long term. And so we were like, Hey, we're really savvy. We're investors or whatever.
And now if we get a cabin, that's it. My life is complete, right? I've got my cabin, I've got my longterm rental and I've got the home I lived, I live in and we're all good. And so that's when we started our search, like end of [00:04:00] 2020, beginning of 2021. We went everywhere, Lake Arrowhead. That's more a private lake area.
Big Bear is the big name in the mountains. But we settled on this little town just outside of Big Bear called Running Springs, and it just had a charm to it. And we found this property and it was in the snow, and it just called to us with Kind of the shapes and the potential it had, it had some problems.
So we knew we had to do some renovation, but my wife was all in and so was I. And, and then we, we made an offer on that property. We got it. We use a second home loan designation because we wanted it was going to be our second home, but rented it part of the time. And so we went through the renovation and we did something a little bit.
Crazier than most, right? A lot of people were advising us, Hey, you have a thousand square foot home. Airbnb is all about beds with heads. But your permit says you can sleep eight. I would sleep eight. Put a bunk bed, put this and that and pull out and really maximize it. I'm like, that just doesn't sound attractive to me though.
So I said, you know [00:05:00] what? Let's do something radical. Like my wife and I were just with our first son. I was like, let's build it for like us before. Like we had kids, let's build it for a couple. And then let's focus on just that. And so we did, and we really wanted a black cabin with a Cedar outside and a mid century, like styling.
And a lot of people were attracted to that. And one of the things that we did that was different besides focusing on the couples was that we had a hidden amenity and that's really. What kind of propelled us and they're like, wait, you put this amazing amenity and you don't talk about it. I'm like, no, I tease at it on my description and I don't show any pictures of it and we tell all the guests not to take pictures of it.
Okay. Wow. Yeah. And so that's, what is it? Oh, you want to know? I want to know you have to say you have to stay at my cabin. And we'll be right back for some words [00:06:00] from our sponsors, stay at the Lightfoot cabin. I'll give you 20 percent off. That's right. No, our hidden amenity is a secret movie theater. Oh wow.
Yeah. So it's a, it's a very moody, very dark green tobacco leather, almost like a bourbon lounge feel. There's like a candy wall where you have a bunch of candy that you can get. There's a. Popcorn machine, there's a hundred inch projection movie. It's not just a TV. So we try to go as high end as we could and yeah.
So it's a hidden amenity and that's not even the best part of the cabin. So the best part is we do a treasure hunt the day that you arrive at the cabin. So once you arrive, like on your way there, three hours before you get a text from us saying, Hey, we're excited for you to come by the way. We're going to start your journey with a treasure hunt.
So go straight to the kitchen island to get your first clue. Cause we love amazing race. Who [00:07:00] doesn't? They start their clue. And essentially the treasure hunt is just there to give them a tour of the home. Everything really cool, creative way. That's really cool. And then it ends throughout this whole time, there's music playing and they're like, where does that music come from?
But they're going to go through the treasure hunt. And at the very end, there is a secret bookcase door that you have to push to open up to get to the movie theater. Man. Like what you're describing is like. My wife would love, my wife really should be the one doing this pod right now. Cause she, everything that you said is it's like her vision board.
Like everything that you're talking about here is what she wants to like create one of the experiences she wants to create, that's just really cool that you've executed on that. So I'm going to, I'm literally going to tell her, that's so cool. I guess just from a business perspective, like this is, it's a lot to execute actually.
Right. You live in LA and this is. A fair amount away from you. How do you get, how do you do all this? We print out all the clues ahead of time. We prep our cleaning crew. We pay them a good [00:08:00] amount of money to set everything up. So they set up, so there's lights and the theater's already turned on by the time the guests arrive and they set the stage for everything.
So it made it actually even better that it was just. A, a couple's getaway. So there's not that much turnover with regards to sheets and things. So we can focus in on extra stuff. It's amazing. So this is like a one, one or like a one, one and a half. Wow. And then how big is the cabin? A thousand square feet.
Wow. That's a really nice honeymoon cabin. So how do you, and we were talking before and this got picked up by some major publications and was really the, what really launched your, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it launched your short term rental journey. Yeah, so no, it did. So we had been trying to work with influencers on Instagram and that's where it started.
We didn't know where it was going to go. We thought it was just an influencer. So they were going to give us some great content and more followers on Instagram. I'm like, sure, we'd love to have you. And they came for Christmas and they [00:09:00] loved it so much. And then I didn't know that she was also gunning for being a editor.
One of the content creators for Condé Nastraveller, and she just so happened to pick us and she was on a tour of all of California. She picked us as her favorite, and then we got featured and just so many people have asked about it. And then from there on, we used and leveraged that to obtain more notoriety and eyes on the property.
So do you take most of the reservations now through direct bookings versus the OTAs, the online traveling, Airbnb? We still do OTAs. Yeah. It's mostly through Airbnb, but we do get the occasional direct bookings and we're trying to build on that. And that's our next step. Got it. Cause we're really new. This was only, we only launched September, 2021.
Okay. So two years, two and a half years. It's amazing though. I'm like super curious about, and I know my wife, I know Liz would love. Something like that to do something like that and also to say something like that. So that's really neat. Let's, let's maybe transition a little bit [00:10:00] now to your other companies.
Um, you have five total, right? You have a one in big bear, uh, or, you know, next to big bear I'm running Springs, California. Two in Tennessee where I own as well in the Smoky Mountains National Park, one in Branson, Missouri, and then one in, where in Kentucky do you own? In Louisville. Okay. You have five properties in four geographies.
Like maybe you can just talk about the journey on why you picked these locations and. Maybe like, why not just buy five in Big Bear or five in Tennessee or five in Branson? These are fairly big markets because I'm going to talk about a lot on the pod is just one guiding principle for us. And again, everyone has different ways of doing it is we really want to scale in one location before we move on to separate one, because it's so hard to find a good cleaner, but you've done successfully like multiple geographies.
So I'm just curious on like your thought process through that and how you've been able to like deliver these great experiences across five different locations. Yeah. What we wanted to prove was that I knew that in the future I was going to [00:11:00] have to consult or coach some people through it. And by proving that I can do it in any market, city, vacation, different vacation, different location, that it's about your system, not really about the market, and that's a more sustainable way to grow your business anyway.
So I'm saying that you can do this yourself. You can do it in any market. We'll prove it. You've only done it one market. No, we haven't. We've already proven it in four almost. Yeah, about four markets now. And the reason for that, another reason is we wanted to insulate from local issues or problems. Right?
So when we were experiencing freezing and busted pipes in one market, the other markets were supporting that. Those other properties there and vice versa. And it's really nice balance for our portfolio as well. Like our California property does really well during the winter time. Whereas the Smokies are down a little bit and California is down in the summer.
Smokies are up. So it's a really nice portfolio balance for us as well. And then I would say [00:12:00] the last thing would be, why did we choose different markets? I would say we wanted to go to the Smokies. My, my wife has always been wanting to go there. That was a natural thing because I guess of the hype, but there was some hype, but man, we truly do love it.
We love visiting. We actually love spending time there. So that's a really big thing. And then Kentucky was happenstance. Like we were following one of our friends and actually outside of Louisville, but we got reconnected with some, another realtor. Real estate agent that told us that maybe the city could be good for us.
And that's one of our best investments thus far. So it's like a urban type property, not a vacation rental property. Okay. What, maybe talk about the difference between operating an urban property that you own versus vacation rental property. Sure. Vacation rental. Some of them are coincide vacation, that type of thing, but there's definitely less families in the urban type of environment.
You're more catering to multiple sets of couples or a group of men [00:13:00] or a group of women out just out on the town where your location is really important to obviously, but the draw is different, right? It's not The national park or outdoor things. It's more city life, concerts, restaurants. And specifically in Louisville, it's the Kentucky Derby, which is a huge draw, right?
And then this year, there's a PGA tour there as well. We thought that alone was an amazing thing. Plus exit strategies in Louisville is much more. Prevalent than innovation markets. I can go long term rental. I could go midterm rental. There's five hospitals within a two mile radius. It just seemed like a good bet.
Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. We talk about vacation rentals a lot here and I'm going to focus on the, on the Louisville one, maybe tell us a little bit about, and you said it's your best deal. So we always like to put some numbers around it. Like how much did you buy it for? How big is it? How many bedrooms, bathrooms?
Sure. It's we bought it for 300 K. It is three bedroom, two bathroom, and we, we did roughly 65 or [00:14:00] almost 70 K in gross revenue. So that hit well above my target of 15 to 20 percent gross, which is awesome. And why that one was our best one was we just got it appraised. It's, we had done some renovations, new bathroom, new paint and things like that.
And it's now 375 and also it was an oversized lot. So we were able to do a lot split like a subdivision and now we're breaking ground on our third development, which is another duplex on the side. Wow. That's really cool. Essentially no money. No money, right? Yeah. You already own the land. You have to, I guess there's some money at the price spend to entitle it and do the legal paperwork and stuff.
Right. That's so cool. It's you bought, pulled all your money out and now you can build this second, the second property on top of it. I was just in a conference in Miami two weeks ago, and I met this gentleman who started in Nashville, very similar kind of to what you just described there. And it said, like, this is the best deal ever.
He turned 17, 000 into 5 [00:15:00] million. Yeah, he basically found, like understood how zoning and national worked and it basically, there's certain lots that there's air rights. You can build multifamily on there. So he like bought them, split them up, built, and then has three amazing Airbnbs on these on this lot that was big.
And then. They, it's, yeah, they, he built some really cool stuff. It makes a lot of money. So it's really cool. Like this is the whole part of real estate. There's, if you find like an interesting thing, you find inefficiency in the market, you can really tap into it and create a lot of value for yourself. You have this, this amazing opportunity to build another property on a land that you.
Don't have to pay any extra money for. And so it's really neat. It just reminded me of that story, the national story that I heard two weeks ago. So was this where we're talking a little about development to your development? You're actually building a few properties now too, as well, right? We're developing a few properties as well.
And in one this time in Arkansas, but it's not really Arkansas. It's just south of Missouri, which is near our [00:16:00] Branson property. So it serves the same market. It's another couple's getaway, but this one just has an amazing lake front view. And I just. We couldn't pass up on it to build something custom from the ground up.
So we're hoping that we'll do really well. And then we're doing our first partnership in Tennessee, where we brought in a partner to help us out and we're building another A frame there as well. Another couples getaway. So as you can tell, it's a recurring theme. That's our brand and that's our target.
That's great though. They have this, you have this beautiful property in California that can. That is the tent pole for all your other properties. And then it's just a great way to market them. So that's fantastic. It's really smart to be good in one niche. So it's funny. It's just like one niche within short term rentals, like just honeymoon cabins and just being able to really dial in and be good at that niche and really dominate that.
The talk about the development process. So like, how'd you learn how to do development through short term rentals? Like most people, they have, everyone has their kind of unique journey, but development is always [00:17:00] one that trips you up because it's. Very difficult to do. So how'd you work your way to now developing four different properties?
Some of it is happenstance. Some of it is my background. I do have a civil engineering degree. Oh, I just had transitioned over smart guy, a loan officer. Yeah. So I never really got to use that aspect, but now I guess to use some of it. But other than that, it was just through it. This land was presented. We never really knew what to do with it.
I was like, you know what, let's just dive into it. There's going to be a budget. There's going to be a bid. There's going to be certain permits that we're going to need. It's going to be a lot of red tape, but at the end, we're just going to get more value. And we just went in deep into learning about construction loans and what due diligence we need.
And we messed up a lot and we went over budget. And, but my thought process is that I could have spent a lot of that money in hiring a teacher or a coach. To tell me anyway, but I guess I'm learning on the job type of thing. And now I can make [00:18:00] each next new build more efficient than the last. And that's what we've been doing.
What was it like YouTube or like, what, like, what'd you get to get started? Or was it just like you had your civil engineering background and you just had a starting spot to go and I'm just trying to like, wow, starting spot to go. Yeah. So we knew that the first part was understanding the construction loan process.
And then after that point, it was how do I make these numbers work and then calling the county or calling other mentors or other short term mental hosts or other builders on what is the next process really leaning on other people's like knowledge surprisingly, not YouTube, but I use that quite often, but not in this case and scenario.
Talking with the construction lender, with the builder, talking with other people who's built before to figure that portion out. Gotcha. Okay. That's very cool. And then we speak about basis, right? When you develop, it's always the highest risk because there's a lot of things that you have to understand and do, but your basis, your cost into the property is the lowest versus, you know, you [00:19:00] buy something that someone else already built and then it's.
There's just a lot more people willing to buy that. So it's just a lot more competitive versus people building. It's a lot harder if you talk about the difference between, from a cost perspective, like maybe pick one property if you were to build it, like what's the cost basis for that all in versus if you were to buy a similar property.
So folks just get a sense of the value creation at you can do by doing this two bedroom, two bath with a view, probably six 50 or something to maybe 700. Uh, you could probably build that for 450 and then plus whatever the land costs is. So you initially, you already have about a hundred to 150 K in equity.
Okay. What's how long would it take for you to buy the land to get, to get up and running? Just what's the kind of typical timeline? Yeah. Depending on how complicated your build is, if it's a pretty standard, typical build, standard windows, builder grade finishes, it'll still look nice. Maybe you can upgrade some of the finishes, but just have a standard floor plan.
You can probably finish in four to six months. Oh, okay. [00:20:00] That's too bad. Okay. Yeah. It gets more complicated when you have custom glass. Custom. The more custom, the longer it takes. Ordering this stuff. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. It's ordering the stuff, creating the custom glass. That's going to be really difficult to frame.
And then how deep your, how steep your slope is, that's going to add more complication. How about if we add a pool? Yeah, that, that adds on the price per square foot, at least 50 per square foot or more. I got it. That's the ones that we are going to build. Okay. Yeah. Pools are one that we were talking to you before.
Pools are one of the biggest things is it's a big feature in Tennessee. Is it also big in, in Branson? No, just Tennessee. It's not like Branson. Branson has Table Rock Lake. It's a huge water area where Tennessee has a Smoky Mountain National Park. Branson has. Table rock lake. So they don't have really a shortage of that.
And most places have an indoor community pool. So got it. I feel Tennessee, just everything that happens in Orlando, Cosimi, all the Disney market, like all the [00:21:00] amenities and tips and tricks from people in that market has this migrated up to Tennessee. It's like everything that was in Florida a year and a half ago, just migrates to Tennessee, the murals, all those things that all those things that differentiates properties.
And I think that's a really big thing that the more and more competitive space becomes, it just becomes more of an arms race. So how do you think about your properties as like the competition gets more and more? It gets more and more competitive. Do you just stick with, Hey, we're going to do this. We know the avatar that we're targeting the honeymoon, the honeymoon cabin, and just drive on that.
Or how do you think about that competitive dynamic? A lot of those people in Kissimmee, they're targeting huge families, so I'm not really a competition for them. All right. So. We're only competing with honeymoon cabins and most that I see are lackluster. So at least they think that because it's a cheap property, so they cheapen out on it.
So we don't, right. So we go a little bit more above and beyond and we try to do things slightly differently than [00:22:00] most operators in that regard. Obviously we're staying up to date with all the tech that comes out or we try to be advanced with regards to like booking lead times. And we're always trying to create some sort of unique experience at each cabin.
So for example, like the Arkansas A frame that we're building, that's a custom with the lakefront that has a container pool, a private plunge pool, container pool. And that's probably way too over the top, but Hey, you know what? At the end of the day, it's whatever sells that particular property. It is heated.
It's got a hot tub. It's got the view. It's got a. Mid century look and a huge deck space. So I'm hoping that all of that will result in a really great couple's getaway. Some small families. That's so cool. Like that container. Did you buy one of those pod pools? The ones where it's 50k? Yeah. The mod pools.
Uh, yeah, no, those aren't inexpensive. That's gonna be really nice couples. Okay. That's so cool that you're one of the first only who I've spoken with actually that [00:23:00] focus on this niche and make it really nice. Right. I think that's where just to double down on that point, right? Like just so you, if you find a niche that you really are good at and just make it so good that you have no other competition, like your point, like.
Other people are doing that. It doesn't matter to you because you, you have what you're good at. How much more do you think you put in to these properties? And you think your competitor does, do you have a max budget that you're like, we're going to put 30 K in every one of these. I'm going to put this 20 per square foot.
Or like, how do you think about. Elevate like from a cost perspective. How do you think about that? Elevating that experience? Like, how do you think about that versus the revenue that you can do? We use the same rule for the rest. Usually if it's a two bedroom, we'll probably 10, 000 per bedroom to start off with.
And I think it's the way that we, or I'm sorry, the way we allocate the money. Okay. So everyone could be thinking high end is maybe high end appliances. But that's not necessarily the case, right? So [00:24:00] we try to, we have a different theory in how we apply the money. Like we really focus on the five senses, everything that the guests can see, we can maybe save a little bit.
So if there's something that we could save, like on artwork, I'll either take a photo and print that out or. Print on Etsy or it's okay. It's, it doesn't have to be authentic. Nobody's going to care. As long as it goes with the aesthetic and the theme paint goes a long way, right? And light fixtures, as long as it works, that's fine.
It has the same look. I don't care if it's a replica for the sofa or the couch. I'm not going to cheap out on that. You're going to sit on it. You're going to touch it. So we're going to elevate that a little bit, right? We're going to elevate the mattress a little bit because the number one thing that all people talk about is how well they slept.
Yeah, and if we could just go all in on that, so most people use cotton in our cabin, we use linen. Wow. So we upgrade that level. So as much as we could, so everything else we go secondhand, we [00:25:00] go thrifting, right? So for example, in our couple's cabin, we always have a record player. We don't get brand new records.
I go to the thrift store and get nine, nine cent records because it's much, much more nostalgic. Anyway, the scratches and the bends, and it feels like you've been there before. We call it like our, we add our own patina to the property. So it doesn't feel like no hate on Target, but it doesn't feel like Target or IKEA just furnished it and let it go.
It felt more curated and it's sprinkled throughout the cabin. You must spend a lot, you and your wife must spend a lot of time on this, right? This is, this isn't just like ordering off a list from Amazon or Target and getting it shipped and you're really curating these things. Yeah, we go and we stay at the property for a month before we launch it.
Even with some designer help, we stay there. We experience it like, Oh man, this, you know what? This doesn't really work that well. It looked good on photos, but we get rid of artwork or we add different things. Wouldn't it be cool if we added this instead? And you could only learn [00:26:00] that when you stay there yourself.
This is amazing. It's like a math. This is a master class on how to differentiate yourself with these short term rentals, right? Find a niche that you're really good at, that you're passionate about, invest in it and be able to build a business around it. Uh, thank you so much for sharing. This is really cool for folks that.
Before you move on, like spending your money allocation, like a lot of people when they go do short term rentals. They'll do this crazy accent wall and spend so much money on that. But I'm like, man, they're not going to see the accent wall. And they totally forget about the bathroom. And again, we're all about things that touch.
Some of the things that we do is you don't even have to change that much. Having that square mirror, that's just plastered on the wall. If you just replace that mirror with a new mirror. And a new light fixture, that's such an inexpensive way to just transform the bathroom. And if you have extra budget, obviously for the fixtures as well.
But my main tip is replace the shower head. It's so cheap, but it makes a huge difference. Yeah. And [00:27:00] it just creates an elevated experience for the guests showering and just something nicer. Yeah, man, we got, we need your help in some of our cabins in Tennessee to elevate the experience. We're, we're can only, we.
Ours are large, the typical heads and beds that's really, yeah. We have six bedrooms, 4, 000 ones, like 4, 400 square feet, four levels. Yeah. Like we couldn't, we could never do that. Those linen sheets would get absolutely murdered the first time. But you don't have the same avatar, right? Your avatar is different.
Cotton could be. Just enough and that's all you need efficiency, but that doesn't mean you can't elevate the experience regardless. Yeah. Yeah. To your point, like the shower heads, couch, I think there's these things where it's a little things that not little, but things that don't cost too much. Right. But can really elevate the experience.
And I like the way that you framed it, right? What you can touch, right? Like sitting on the couch, like laying in bed, right? The comforter, the sheets, the pillows, pillows are a big thing, right? We actually now we will replace the pillows in the cabins that [00:28:00] we own. We replaced the pillows every year. Now it sucks because we will steal them.
So we need extras like the king pillows. People, they grow, evidently they grow legs in Tennessee because they walk off all the time like that. We'll invest in right shower heads. We haven't thought about actually, that's a good point. Maybe we'll get people to swap. It's not too expensive to have something that kind of mimics a rainfall shower and then maybe just, I would say one of the bathrooms, leave it as like a wand head.
For the kids to be able to, it's easier to shower the kids with a wand. So that's the only one. So if you have three bathrooms, I would do two kind of rainfall looking ones and one for the kids. And then that a lot of intent. Yeah. I, I didn't even, I didn't even thought about that. We actually just installed one of those handle ones for our, we have a two year old daughter now, she.
Showers in the tub. So we did that. I didn't even think about doing that. And we have six bathrooms, so I'm sure we can do one of those out there. And they're, they're easy. Yeah. They're like, it's 40 bucks from Home Depot. And it was like 20 bucks. Yeah, it's really, yeah, it's not, it's nothing. It's just some tape and get someone to frame it in.
All right, Chase. I really enjoyed this conversation. [00:29:00] Numbers, this is really cool way of thinking about, no, really, but like, how do you get more revenue? Fundamentally for me, it's a business, right? We want to make profits, but how do you. Yeah, there's different ways of doing that. And I really love the, your approach on elevating experience, really targeting a certain avatar and just getting like really good at that and look forward to, to continue to learn from you and folks want to reach out to you.
What's the best way for folks to reach you? Well, you could follow us on, at the Lightfoot cabin on Instagram, or just, you could call me or text me. That would be probably the best way. Okay. So what we'll do is. We'll drop the link to Lightfoot cabins on for the show notes for folks. I want to reach out to chase and send him a DM and I'm sure he'll be happy to share his experiences.
Chase. Thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thanks man. Appreciate you having me on.